Forgive, Or Else

July 8, 2023
Keith Shoop
Bible Study

Forgive, Or Else . . . part 1

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Matthew 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mark 11:25-26 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

For many years after I came to understand Paul’s distinctive ministry, these verses never bothered me. Every grace preacher I had heard expound on these verses had sad the same basic thing. It was basically what Bullinger says in his notes in the companion Bible:
“Forgiveness was conditional in that dispensation of the kingdom. “
Which is comparable to what Scofield said in his note on Mt. 6:12:
“This is legal ground. Cf. Eph 4:32 which is grace. Under law forgiveness is conditioned upon a like spirit in us; under grace we are forgiven for Christ’s sake, and exhorted to forgive because we have been forgiven.”

(Quote from John Fredericksen’s God’s Meaning in Matthew): This is a grace teacher who understands Paul’s distinctive ministry. He says about the same thing, but says that the Jewish saints will be given supernatural ability by the Holy Spirit for forgiveness.

I was satisfied with these types of explanations for a while, the same as I was okay with a requirement for water baptism for salvation into the kingdom program. But the more I learned and understood, I began to see that any requirement for personal, eternal soul salvation other than faith contradicts the clear teaching of scripture.

The first question we must ask, then: In any dispensation, does one’s sins (or trespasses) need to be forgiven by God to have eternal life?

If the answer to that is yes, then the second question would be: Will the saints of that time period be given supernatural ability to grant forgiveness? The answer to that is plainly no, which we will get to in a while.

I was discussing this with Dan Gross a while ago, and he said something that I believe to be true: “Any time I read something that seems to contradict the plain teaching of Romans 3 & 4, the problem is that I just don’t understand it yet.”

Romans 3:23-26 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is pretty plain. Works have never been a requirement for personal, eternal justification. But some may argue that 1) Forgiveness is not a work, but an attitude, and 2) going to Paul’s epistles to explain salvation in another dispensation is disingenuous. We have to look at kingdom teaching to discern kingdom salvation.

If the proper attitude is a requirement apart from faith for salvation, wouldn’t the first commandment be part of that attitude?
1. Mark 12:28-34 ¶ And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
2. Here is a scribe with the perfect attitude concerning the greatest of the commandments (Matt. 22:36-40), yet Jesus tells him that he is not far from the kingdom of God. Why, having the right attitude toward Jehovah God, was he not yet saved?
  1. Mark 12:13 ¶ And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his
  2. His attitude was proper toward the Father, but he did not “believe that thou (Jesus) art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.” (John 11:27; 20:31)
3. If God will only forgive the sins of those who forgive others, isn’t that making Him a God whose attitude would be ‘do as I say, not as I do’?
If forgiving others is a requirement for individual, everlasting life, what do we do with these verses?
1. John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
2. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
3. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
4. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Many more examples could be given, not only in the earthly ministry of Christ, but in the kingdom epistles. Nowhere else that I can find, is the status of one’s eternal justification dependent on whether or not they forgive anyone. Christ, John, Peter, the writer of Hebrews, and Paul all base individual salvation on faith alone.

That being the case, how then is forgiving others a prerequisite for receiving forgiveness from God? Herein lies a bit of a conundrum, especially in other passages where Christ speaks of forgiving others.

Matthew 18:15-17 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Wait a minute. Didn’t the four passages we began with just say forgive so that you will be forgiven? But here we read that before forgiveness, there must first be an encounter one-on-one, then three-on-one, then the entire assembly-on-one, and the brother must repent before forgiveness is given. And if there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness. How can that be? The passages that we began with don’t say “forgive if they repent,” they just say “forgive trespasses.”

Luke 17:3-4 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Again here, we see qualified forgiveness that is completely absent from the passages we are considering. Here one is to rebuke his brother first, then wait for the brother’s repentance.
So what are we to believe concerning forgiving others so that God can forgive those kingdom saints?

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

It has always been, and always will be, faith in what God has revealed to and for you (in the time which you live) that God accepts. It is only ever that. From the first book that was written:

Job 13:15-16 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. 16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.

And the first book chronologically in the Bible:

Genesis 15:5-6 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

To the last book that was written:

2 Timothy 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

And the last book chronologically:

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Personal eternal salvation – being given the righteousness of Christ – is, was, and always will be faith in the revelation that God had given.

So where does that leave us? Do we have to consider the quote read earlier, that the Spirit will give kingdom saints supernatural abilities to forgive others in the 70^th week of Daniel? Again, the answer is no.

Peter, writing to the kingdom saints concerning the last days, and why they have been delayed, says this:

2 Peter 1:1-9 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises(a): that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 ¶ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. ((a) Romans 9:4)

Peter is writing to Israelites (those given the exceeding and great promises of Romans 9:4). He is writing to them concerning the last days, and the conduct therein.
He is writing to those who already have faith (verse 5).
He tells them to add seven things to their faith. (Forgiveness isn’t included, but could be implied in virtue, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity.)
There will be those who do not add these things, who he calls blind, and cannot see far off. But will their sins be purged? Verse nine says they have been.
If the Spirit was supernaturally enabling forgiveness in believing Israelites during the time of Jacob’s trouble, he would certainly be supernaturally giving these seven things as supernatural gifts also, so that no one whose sins are purged goes about blindly.

Now let us first examine the two places where Christ instructs his disciples concerning brotherly trespasses. These we have read already, but we’ll look at them a bit closer.

Matthew 18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

The first thing we notice here is that here Jesus is using the singular noun and pronoun. ‘Thy brother,’ ‘against thee,’ ‘tell him his fault between thee and him.’ He is speaking here to his disciples (18:1), and talking about an offense committed by and individual brother against an individual disciple.
Contrast that with the verses we are considering on the first page.
- “ if ye forgive men,” “if ye forgive not men,” “when ye stand praying,” “if ye have ought against any,” “forgive, and ye shall be forgiven,” “for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.”
We will cover that more fully later when we look at these passages individually, but for now it is just important to note that here Christ is speaking about individuals trespassing against individuals. In the passages in question, it is always the group (ye, we, us) that is being trespassed against.

So when a brother trespasses against a disciple, the first step is to face the brother one on one. If he repents, then you forgive him. This is shown more clearly in the second passage.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

However, if he does not repent – have a change of mind concerning what he has done – there are more steps.

Matthew 18:16-17 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

There are three steps involved here. After the third step, being rebuked by the church, if he still does not repent, THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS.
- The parallel to this in the dispensation of grace can be found in I Cor. 5 and II Cor. 2. The fornicator was thrown out of the church, he repented, and he was received back into the church.
The second thing to note is that this was something that was not to be done until after the resurrection of Christ. The reason for this is that during Christ’s earthly ministry, temple worship and synagogue worship were still the order. The church didn’t exist until Christ gave them the Comforter.

The issue of forgiveness of the individual by the disciples, or leadership of the future church, was very serious business.

Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

If one remains unforgiven by the disciples, or the divinely appointed leadership of the kingdom church, that is bound in heaven. That doesn’t mean that individual loses their salvation, but it could cause them to be kept from entering the physical land of the kingdom after it is set up.

Matthew 18:19-20 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

We’re not going to get into prayer promises now, but this verse is proof that the church that Christ is referring to in verse 17 is not the church, the body of Christ. If Jesus was referring in this passage to us, then obviously he was lying. There are many times that entire church communities pray for a singular thing and it is not given to them. This passage is specifically dealing with the kingdom church in early Acts, and the resumption of that church after the end of the dispensation of grace.

Matthew 18:21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Luke 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Matthew 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Luke 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

So we can see here, that as long as one repents of their trespass, they are to be forgiven.
The forgiveness is always conditional on repentance of an individual.

Finally, I think it is interesting to note that Jesus says that they should forgive “until seventy times seven.”

I don’t believe he is saying forgive them 490 times, but the 491^st time you don’t forgive them. I believe he is making reference to a time period.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Seventy (70) weeks (7) are determined upon Israel to anoint the most Holy.
When Jesus says: “UNTIL seventy times seven,” I believe he is telling them that there forgiveness should continue until the most Holy is anointed, which is found in Revelation chapters 10 and 11.

So we have gone through all of this as a preamble to trying to discern the meaning of the passages laid out at the start. Next we will look at those passages to see if we can understand their meaning. So to summarize:

Works, or specific attitudes, are never required for individual justification before God. Only the sacrifice of Christ can justify anyone (Romans 3 & 4; Hebrews 10:1-18)
Forgiveness of individual trespasses are dependent on the repentance of the individual who committed the sin.

The passages we will consider are speaking to the group, not the individual.

Forgive, Or Else . . .part 2

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Luke 6:37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

When we began this study, we looked at several things that we need to understand before digging into this text.

Salvation is always by grace through faith plus nothing, no matter what dispensation you are living in. We proved that in Romans 3 & 4, John 3:16-18; 5:24; & 6:40, 47. We also saw that it is faith alone in the first book written: Job 13:15-16; Genesis 15:5-6, the first book of the Bible; 2 Timothy 1:5, the last book written; and Revelation 13:10, the last book in the canon.
We saw in Matthew 18:15-17 and Luke 17:3-4 that forgiveness of a brother is conditional on that brother’s repentance. And if he repents that he must be forgiven until 70 x 7. We saw that the 70 x 7 didn’t mean that if trespasses 491 times, it’s over for him, but that is a reference to the Daniel 9:24 when the most Holy is anointed, at which time there will be no more forgiveness, but wrath.
We saw that the Holy Spirit is not going to give them supernatural ability to forgive, which protects all believers. A) Because some will believe for a while, and will fall away in the time of temptation, and B) 2 Peter 1:1-9 tells them to add seven virtues to their faith, yet if they don’t add them, they have still been purged from their sins.
Finally, the passages above that we will consider tonight, are all written in the plural tense: us, we, ye, and you, as opposed to Matt. 18 and Luke 17.

The basic and most important rules of Bible study always come down to several rules which must always be observed:

Who is speaking?
To whom are the words being addressed?
What is the subject, context, and / or the situation being spoken or written about?

So the first two passages we want to address are in Matthew 6, during what is commonly called ‘the sermon on the mount.’

Who is speaking?

Mt 5:1-2 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

It is Christ who is speaking, and he is speaking as King.

To whom are the words being addressed?
- It is his disciples. I believe it is only the 12 that he has chosen as apostles, but at the very most, it is only his disciples. (**See endnote)
What is he talking about?

Mt 6:1-20 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. ((7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.)) 16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly. 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

In the first 18 verses of Matt. 6, the word reward is used 7 times. If you search for every variation of reward: (reward, rewarded, rewardeth, rewards, rewarder) the total of these variations occur 17 times in the entire book of Psalms, 12 times in the entire book of Proverbs, and 7 times in the entire book of Isaiah. They occur in these 20 verses more than any other entire book of the Bible except those three. Additionally verses 19-20 are referencing rewards without using the word.

So here Jesus Christ, as King, is speaking to the 12 (or possibly his disciples) about rewards.
In verses 9-13 he is giving them the model prayer so that they may obtain those rewards.

In verse 12 they are to pray: “forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.”

Their prayer is to petition God that He will forgive their debts in the same way that they forgive their debtors. So the first question is, what are their debts? The second question is, who are their debtors?

Christ, during his earthly ministry, laid a debt upon Peter, as the future leader of the kingdom church:

Mt 16:16-19 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

He laid this debt also on the disciples, when two or three agree on anything:

Mt 18:18-20 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Finally, he placed a debt on 10 apostles (which would also apply to the other two):

Joh 20:21-23 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

In the same manner in which God sent Christ to the earth, Christ sends his apostles. They have the power to bind and loose, and they have the power to remit, or forgive sins. This is the debt that has been placed on them as the leadership of the future church.

So then, who are those that are in debt to the leadership of the future church?

Strangely enough, it is Paul that helps us, in a roundabout way, to answer this question:

Ro 15:25-27 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

Those that are made partakers of the spiritual things promised to Israel are debtors to the Israel from which those spiritual things come.
We find then, in a familiar passage, who those debtors that require the remittance of sin from the leadership of the kingdom church, will be:

Joe 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

This passage doesn’t mean that all those on whom the Spirit is poured out will be saved. But they will be partakers of the spiritual gifts promised to Israel. But many will fall away.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

These are the debtors to the true leadership of the kingdom church that need forgiveness so that they do not fall away.

As the Spirit is poured out upon them, it is the responsibility of the kingdom church’s leadership to bring them, individually and corporately, to repentance and belief the Jesus was the Christ.

Important note: This passage is not speaking to those who are in the kingdom on earth after it has been set up. It is specifically to those who are the leadership of the kingdom churches which will begin after this dispensation ends and go through the 70^th week of Daniel. That is evident in the prayer: “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”

This is then clarified further after the end of the model prayer for reward.

Mt 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

We asked the question: can any individual in any dispensation have eternal life without his / her trespasses being forgiven? No.

But now we need to clarify that further. I will give two examples.

2Ki 21:1-2 Manasseh was twelve years old when he began to reign, and reigned fifty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Hephzi-bah. 2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

In verse 11 it says: “…Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him…” and then:

2Ki 21:16-17 Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. 17 Now the rest of the acts of Manasseh, and all that he did, and his sin that he sinned, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah?

Just reading that, would you think that Manasseh ended up in torment or in Abraham’s bosom after he died?
But then II Chronicles we read this:

2Ch 33:11-16 Wherefore the LORD brought upon them the captains of the host of the king of Assyria, which took Manasseh among the thorns, and bound him with fetters, and carried him to Babylon. 12 And when he was in affliction, he besought the LORD his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers, 13 And prayed unto him: and he was intreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD he was God. 14 Now after this he built a wall without the city of David, on the west side of Gihon, in the valley, even to the entering in at the fish gate, and compassed about Ophel, and raised it up a very great height, and put captains of war in all the fenced cities of Judah. 15 And he took away the strange gods, and the idol out of the house of the LORD, and all the altars that he had built in the mount of the house of the LORD, and in Jerusalem, and cast them out of the city. 16 And he repaired the altar of the LORD, and sacrificed thereon peace offerings and thank offerings, and commanded Judah to serve the LORD God of Israel.

Manasseh actually becomes a type of unbelieving Israel in the time of Jacob’s trouble, who turns to God and repents.
So now do you think that Manasseh ended up in torment or Abraham’s bosom after his death? I certainly believe, based on Ezekiel 33:14-16, that he went to Abraham’s bosom.

But was Manasseh’s sins forgiven?

2Ki 23:25-26 (speaking of Josiah the king): And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him. 26 Notwithstanding the LORD turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath, wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him withal.

2Ki 24:1-4 In his days Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came up, and Jehoiakim became his servant three years: then he turned and rebelled against him. 2 And the LORD sent against him bands of the Chaldees, and bands of the Syrians, and bands of the Moabites, and bands of the children of Ammon, and sent them against Judah to destroy it, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servants the prophets. 3 Surely at the commandment of the LORD came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did; 4 And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the LORD would not pardon.

Manasseh ended up being a saved man, but the consequences, or reward, of his sin were not forgiven.

The second example is more relevant to the verses in Matthew 6, concerning the leadership of the kingdom churches.

Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

A candlestick is a church: remember that.
When we studied the seven churches of Revelation, we saw that the problem in Ephesus was that they lost their first love. We saw how that was looking back in Israel’s history to when the spies returned from the land, and 10 of them said there’s no way we can take that land. Israel then made captains and were going to return to Egypt. Moses intervened when God was going to destroy them, but God said everyone from 20 years old and up was going to die in the wilderness.

Now look at what Christ tells the church of Ephesus:

Re 2:4-5 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

What is a candlestick? – Their church.
Their trespasses will not be forgiven if they do not DO THE FIRST WORKS.
This has nothing to do with individual salvation, because in verse 7 we read: “To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”

When Christ says: “But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses,” he is not saying if Peter doesn’t forgive Andrew for mocking him, Peter’s sins won’t be forgiven.”

He is saying that there will be those who are made partakers of our spiritual things. It is your job to go out and be the means by which they receive forgiveness by preaching the gospel of the kingdom. If you don’t do that – if you don’t forgive those debtors – if you don’t forgive men their trespasses – you (church leadership) will not be forgiven. The result is that your church will be taken out of its’ place

We don’t have time to get into this, but also in Israel’s earthly program, forgiveness is also universally tied to physical healing and power over the serpent (or casting out devils). (Ex. 4:1-7; Mt 10:1-8; Mark: 16;18; Luke 5:18-23; James 5:13-16, etc.).
So forgiving men their trespasses also involves physical healing and casting out devils.

Two more interesting verses, concerning this:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Again, here we see “them which have rule” is plural.
We also see that these rulers, or church leadership, are the ones who have given the believing Hebrews the word of God, and it is their faith that is to be followed. They are forgiving their debtors.
- Compare this to what Paul wrote to Philemon: Phm 19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

It is the leadership that must give account for the state of their church. Their reward is joyfulness or grief when they give that account.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lu 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Here, again it is Jesus speaking, but the situation is very different, as the audience is different:

Lu 6:19-20 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all. 20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Here he is speaking to his disciples, not just the 12, but he is doing it in the presence of the multitudes.
In the last verse of Matthew 5, before he begins speaking to them about rewards, he says this:

Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

In Luke 6, to all of his disciples in the audience of the multitudes, he says something different right before he begins talking about rewards:

Lu 6:36-38 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

In this passage, speaking to a wider audience and not just the future leadership of the kingdom church, there isn’t a negative exhortation. He doesn’t say: ‘if you don’t forgive, you won’t be forgiven.’ This is simply instructions on how to live to receive the reward.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At this point, we should define what the reward is that will be for the faithful leadership and also for the faithful disciples.

The reward of the faithful and fruitful leadership is authority in the government of the kingdom (Matt. 24:7; 25:14-30, etc.).

The reward of the faithful and fruitful disciple is to dwell in the land and city promised to Abraham (Ps. 15; 43; Isa. 26:1-5; 56:1-7; 57:15; Ezk 20:38; Rev. 22:14).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr 11:25-26 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

I believe this one is a slightly different forgiveness, because it has to do with the power of Spiritual gifts rather than the execution of their duties as the leadership in the churches. This seems to be clear by the context.

Mr 11:20-26 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. 21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

This seems pretty simple to me. When you pray, if you believe that God will give you what you are praying for, He will. But only if you are praying with a pure heart.
In the above passage, a mountain being cast into the sea isn’t a physical mountain being cast into the sea, but a kingdom or nation being destroyed.
- In this example, suppose it is the second half of the 70^th week of Daniel and you are fleeing the land for safety. You come to the border of a country and they won’t let you in. You decide in your righteous indignation that you are going ‘to cast that mountain into the sea.’ Will that be successful?

David, writing prophetically about this time, say this:

Ps 35:11-17 False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not. 12 They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul. 13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. 14 I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother. 15 But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not: 16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. 17 Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.

And another Psalm:

Ps 94:1-5 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph? 4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? 5 They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage.

The heart attitude of any prayer (in any dispensation) must be in line with God’s revealed Word and will. God’s will is that they (and we) forgive and allow all vengeance to belong to Him.

It is in that context that I believe these trespasses will not be forgiven. If you have animus in your heart toward any, that must be forgiven from the heart. If not, God will not perform His prayer promises – not forgive your trespasses – until your heart is pure and in line with His will.

Interestingly, none of these passages say He will NEVER forgive their trespasses. Only that they won’t be forgiven until one forgives.

In the first case, it’s debts and trespasses – unbelief and sin – that must be forgiven by the leadership to whom those powers are given.

In this case, it is grudges and animus against others – an impure heart – that must be made right before God will answer the prayer promises.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lu 11:1-4 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. 2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. 3 Give us day by day our daily bread. 4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

One of several reasons that I believe that Christ was only speaking to the 12 in Matt 5-7 is this passage. If he were speaking to all the disciples, why would they now be asking him to teach them to pray?

This being to all of the disciples, not just the 12, and in the company of the multitudes, the wording is different and several words are left out.

Mt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Lu 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.

In Matt., it is forgiveness of debts; Luke, forgiveness of sins.
prayer is to forgive in like manner – as – we forgive. Luke is forgive because -for we also – forgive.
is debtors – plural (Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.) Luke is individuals – everyone.

It is still a matter of rewards, but disciples will be dealing with unbelievers one on one, while the leadership will be dealing mostly with groups, governments, councils, etc.

In Luke’s prayer, the reward is based on the fact that they are doing their job. One couldn’t pray the prayer in Luke if they haven’t already forgiven those that they may – otherwise that would make them a liar.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

**This is reason I believe that Christ is speaking only to the twelve in “the sermon on the mount”:

Each of the four gospels presents a unique aspect of Christ’s character during his earthly ministry. Matthew as the righteous king, Mark as the willing servant, Luke as the perfect man, and John as God with man.

Because of this, events are sometimes placed out of the chronological order in which they happened.

Luke 1:3-4 “It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”

Luke’s account, according to this verse, is written in order.

If Matthew’s account was chronological, Matthew would have been absent from it. It seems absurd to believe that Christ would have left one of the twelve out of this message.

If one reads, in this order, the accounts given, it makes the most sense: Matt. 5:1 to the word ‘mountain’ – Luke 6:12 – Matt. 5:1 (b) and Luke 6:13-16 – Matt. 5:2-7:23 – Luke 6:17-46 – Matt. 7:24-27 with Luke 6:47-49 – Matt. 7:28-29. He begins Matt. 5 speaking only to his disciples, but ends speaking to the multitudes. If one understands that he spoke to the disciples on the mountain, came down with them to the plain, healed the multitudes, then spoke to the disciples in the company of the multitudes an abbreviated and different message that he gave to the disciples on the mountain, this will explain Matt. 7:28-29.
That being the case, the reading of Luke 6:17 indicates that he came down with the chosen twelve and stood in the company of the disciples and the multitudes.

In Luke 11 a disciple comes to Jesus and asks him to teach them to pray. He then teaches them by giving the same (but abbreviated) prayer as in Matt. 6. This is not included in Luke 6 and explains why he would need to teach them what he had already taught them on the mount. Only the 12 were present on the mount, and the rest of the disciples never heard this.

5-7 is the king giving his future leadership instructions for what is to come. All of the disciples would not be part of that leadership. In Matt. 6 the promise is that physical needs will be supplied without asking if the kingdom of God is sought first; in Luke 11 needs are filled by asking with importunity (Pressing solicitation; urgent request). This would indicate a difference in the audience.